Are you effected by the Flood in Jakarta Today

[pantaiema]

A Look at Flood Conditions in the Capital City Today

The issue in Jakarta and Indonesia lies in the utilization of open canals instead of closed ones. The open canals make it easy for waste to be deposited, as people casually discard their trash into them, resulting in poor canal functionality. Furthermore, construction work often obstructs the canals.

Anies Baswedan presidential candidate when he was the Governor of Jakarta constructing infiltration wells, which sensible people could easily see that it could only work well in the arid lands, deserts. Some of these the infiltration wells were even built on the pavement. This approach is chosen rather than simply adding more canals.

Anies Baswedan Sebut Sumur Resapan Berhasil Atasi Banjir Jakarta: Bukan Kata Saya

FAJAR.CO.ID, JAKARTA — Anies Baswedan kembali menegaskan sumur resapan yang digencarkan saat dirinya menjabat gubernur DKI Jakarta merupakan konsep masa depan dan sebagai solusi untuk mengatasi…

www.fajar.co.id

This statement came out on 21 June 2023. Anies Baswedan Says Infiltration Wells Have Been Successful in Overcoming Jakarta's Floods:

 

[Pak Tani]

This approach is chosen rather than simply adding more canals.

40% of Jakarta lies below sea level. Where do you suggest these canals flow to?

 

[fastpitch17]

40% of Jakarta lies below sea level. Where do you suggest these canals flow to?

Do not the rivers in these areas that flood flow somewhere? Dike the rivers and then flow flood waters into them through canals at least 3 meter wide.

 

[centurion]

Do not the rivers in these areas that flood flow somewhere? Dike the rivers and then flow flood waters into them through canals at least 3 meter wide.

That is exactly how the system works. There are several big reservoirs (basically mini lakes) that are used when rain comes, and rivers and rain overflows there. However, they do not exist everywhere (Pluit Great Reservoir is an example).

I think in the South they made the normalization of Ciliwung but obviously still floods. "Normalization" is a Dutch method when normal river is converted to a straight line channel (wider than 3m).

 

[centurion]

Anies Baswedan presidential candidate when he was the Governor of Jakarta constructing infiltration wells, which sensible people could easily see that it could only work well in the desert. This approach is chosen rather than simply adding more canals.

Wait this guy to become a president we will all learn to swim across Indonesia.

 

[pantaiema]

40% of Jakarta lies below sea level. Where do you suggest these canals flow to?

Well to be pumped to your "sawah (field)". Water and Pak Tani is a perfect match isn't it ??

Jericho a city in west bank is 250m below sea level. Baku the capital city of Azerbaizan is 28 metres (92 ft) below sea level. Learn from these cities.

 

[Pak Tani]

Well to be pumped to your "sawah (field)". Water and Pak Tani is a perfect match isn't it ??

Thanks, but no thanks. We've got plenty during the rainy season.

Baku the capital city if in Azerbaizan is 28 metres (92 ft) below sea level. Learn from this country.

It rains more in one month in Jakarta than in Baku in a whole year.

 

[Samoerai]

Anies Baswedan presidential candidate when he was the Governor of Jakarta constructing infiltration wells, which sensible people could easily see that it could only work well in the desert. This approach is chosen rather than simply adding more canals.

Infiltration wells? For restoring ground water level(s) in Jakarta. Sounds to me as a good idea. Why not?

 

[Samoerai]

I think in the South they made the normalization of Ciliwung but obviously still floods. "Normalization" is a Dutch method when normal river is converted to a straight line channel (wider than 3m).

In The Netherlands they abandon this idea of 'normalization'. Due to climate change, there are more frequent periods of more rain and melt water, causing water levels in the rivers to rise. They are giving rivers space again instead of just 'normalizing' and raising dikes. Reservoirs are now dug everywhere to collect and store water for the dry season. Citizens are asked to provide their gardens with grass, trees and shrubs again instead of tiles; this is to keep the rainwater in the ground for as long as possible.

 

[Pak Tani]

Infiltration wells? For restoring ground water level(s) in Jakarta. Sounds to me as a good idea. Why not?

I don't think there are any other feasible options. Simply adding more channels, is there any space for them? Under the streets, yes but that will be a megaproject noone wants to burn his fingers on. And for how long will these channels function, since Jakarta is sinking:

It's already happening - North Jakarta has sunk 2.5m in 10 years and is continuing to sink by as much as 25cm a year in some parts, which is more than double the global average for coastal megacities.

Jakarta is sinking by an average of 1-15cm a year and almost half the city now sits below sea level.

It's easy to blame Anies for not dealing with it, but this problem is just so big.

 

[gemima]

Thanks, but no thanks. We've got plenty during the rainy season.

It rains more in one month in Jakarta than in Baku in a whole year.

Yeah - I get that its good to learn from other cities but I get the feeling Baku isnt built on a swamp, on a landmass dipping into the sea, with rivers coming off nearby mountains in a tropical country (so lots of rain) where the water table is being sucked dry with wells. Jakarta is quite a mess in this regard and there is no way to "fix" it - you can just try to manage it.

 

[Pak Tani]

Yeah - I get that its good to learn from other cities but I get the feeling Baku isnt built on a swamp, on a landmass dipping into the sea, with rivers coming off nearby mountains in a tropical country (so lots of rain) where the water table is being sucked dry with wells. Jakarta is quite a mess in this regard and there is no way to "fix" it - you can just try to manage it.

Maybe there is a way to fix it but it's just too expensive (which means that there is no way to fix it). From the same article above:

There is technology to replace groundwater deep at its source but it's extremely expensive. Tokyo used this method, known as artificial recharge, when it faced severe land subsidence 50 years ago. The government also restricted groundwater extraction and businesses were required to use reclaimed water. Land subsidence subsequently halted.

But Jakarta needs alternative water sources for that to work. Heri Andreas, from Bandung Institute of Technology, says it could take up to 10 years to clean up the rivers, dams and lakes to allow water to be piped anywhere or used as a replacement for the aquifers deep underground.

 

[Samoerai]

As I said before in another thread .. be flexible .. sell your property in Jakarta and prepare to move when the tough gets going.

 

[fastpitch17]

I am not too concerned about Jakarta. Every problem they have is brought on by themselves. People screw it up, business screws it up and then government ignores it until the problems are beyond their capabilities. Homes get damaged. Businesses get damaged. Both then want government to pay for their initial wrong decisions. Most times they do. Build your house next to a river and then bitch when it's damaged in a flood.

Nope, don't live in Jakarta. One year was more than enough. My city in the Southern part is at sea level. I am more center at 100 meters above sea level. The Northern part is even higher. I have never flooded. Have drainage gutter next to house and water from us and the North gets it flowing pretty good but never came over. We and the other area residents keep the weeds and any debris out of it from our neighborhood to the river where it empties about 70 meters away. Of course, the Southern area gets a lot of flow and floods regularly as the waters flow down streets and empty into the bay. I can only remember 2 areas in the Kota that collect water in low intersections. Easy to avoid. Guess this city actually had qualified planners when it came to flood control. The mayor just bought a bunch of trucks and will be crewed with guys only cleaning city gutters. Now, just to get those crews to actually work.

 

[Samoerai]

As I said before in another thread .. be flexible .. sell your property in Jakarta and prepare to move when the tough gets going.

Be like water

 

[Pak Tani]

Be like water

Be a 7 on the Bristol scale.

 

[Samoerai]

Be a 7 on the Bristol scale.

Bau

 

[Pak Tani]

Bau

It's like water

 

[pantaiema]

40% of Jakarta lies below sea level. Where do you suggest these canals flow to?

The figure stating 40% of Jakarta areas are below the sea levels are overstated. It frequently comes from unreliable sources and scientists/researchers misquoting the official figures.

Where other more authoritative sources are stating otherwise.

Bukan Mitos! 20% Wilayah Jakarta Lebih Rendah dari Permukaan Laut

Sejumlah video yang menunjukkan permukaan air laut lebih tinggi dari daratan Jakarta beredar di medsos. DKI menyatakan video tersebut bukan mitos.

news.detik.com

"Pada Tahun 2021 Dinas Sumber Daya Air Provinsi DKI Jakarta bersama Institut Teknologi Bandung melakukan penelitian dengan hasil yang menyatakan bahwa sekitar 18-20% wilayah Jakarta sudah berada di bawah permukaan laut, dan angkanya terus bertambah"

Yes 40% of the area in North Jakarta is below sea level, but it is not the whole Jakarta. North Jakarta (146.7 km²) is only representing a small percentage of the Jakarta Metropolitan areas (6,802.10 km²).

40 Persen Wilayah Utara Jakarta Berada di Bawah Permukaan Laut

Pemprov DKI Jakarta melalui konsep NCICD berupaya menangani dan mengantisipasi kenaikan muka laut yang berpotensi membuat Jakarta tenggelam. Di hilir membangun tanggul pantai, di darat mengurangi penyedotan air tanah.

www.kompas.id

"Sekitar 40 persen kawasan di utara Jakarta saat ini kondisinya berada di bawah muka air laut" Around 40 percent of the area north of Jakarta is currently below sea level

........ Where do you suggest these canals flow to?

I don't think there are any other feasible options. Simply adding more channels, is there any space for them? Under the streets, yes but that will be a megaproject noone wants to burn his fingers on. And for how long will these channels function, since Jakarta is sinking:

It's easy to blame Anies for not dealing with it, but this problem is just so big.

What is the purposes of powerful pumps, water dams, reservoirs ?? How do you think The well-known canals such as the Suez and Panama are addressing different elevation in various sections of the canals ?? The concept of locking arrangement, using locks and water gates in canal systems has been known since ages. These mechanisms have been used to raising or lowering of boats/ships between different water levels in the world renown canals. In Jakarta there is no need to be in this scale but the similar concepts in a smaller scales have been used anywhere around the world.

The concern in Jakarta is around its low-lying swampy areas. These area below the sea level could be easily recognised by their initial "rawa" in naming the regions. But some cities around the world even face a greater challenges than Jakarta where the cities are below the sea level in many fronts. The issue in Jakarta I believe lies in the frequent approval of construction projects, even it is built in swampy areas where the elevation is acknowledged to be below sea level, without requiring developers to spend money to address this potential problem before obtaining approval. Additionally, Jakarta faces a unique problem with open canals, as residents casually dispose waste into them, new construction project waste fall into the gutters leading to canals, leading to poor canal functionality. You could observe this phenomenon if you are passing in front of new construction sites in Jakarta. Not to mention the approval of underground rail ways without fully addressing the elevation and how to manage flooding around the rail tracks.

Dams and water reservoirs offer other benefit for the people like "Pak Tani" to be used for irrigation in agricultural fields and for hydro power stations. Pak tani and other farmers, aquaculture involves the cultivation of fish and other aquatic organisms don't have to be concerned about being exploited by flooding diversion during the monsoon season. Instead, the water resources can be utilized to address water scarcity during droughts and the farmers could even benefit more by the possibility of multiple harvest seasons in a year due the availability of water supply throughout the year.

There is an idea of generating artificial rain in Jakarta and large cities in the past to reduce air toxicity in the air and ensure an adequate water supply in dry season. This might be more costly process with minimum benefit.

The Engineering Marvel called Panama Canal

 

[pantaiema]

Infiltration wells? For restoring ground water level(s) in Jakarta. Sounds to me as a good idea. Why not?

Have there not been swampy areas in Jakarta with functions similar to infiltration wells, but covering much larger areas, since ages? These areas in Jakarta are often identified by names starting with "rawa,". This could naturally served this purpose without the necessity for spending any money for additional ground excavation. Why is there a need to construct infiltration wells if such natural features could solve the problem ??

Anies Baswedan built reasonable number of infiltration wells when he was the Governor of Jakarta. In his era as the governor of Jakarta. Some of these infiltration wells were even built on the pavement.

Mengapa Sumur Resapan di Era Anies Bermasalah? Saksi Sebut Sering Sebabkan Kecelakaan

Ada lima insiden kecelakaan akibat sumur resapan yang disaksikan juru parkir di kawasan Lebak Bulus. Beruntung, insiden tersebut tidak berujung fatal.

megapolitan.kompas.com

https://www.cnnindonesia.com/nasion...pan-anies-tak-efektif-atasi-banjir-boros-apbd Expert Criticizes Anies Infiltration Well: Not Effective in Dealing with Floods, Waste of money.

But do people need an expert opinion if general observation that could be done by everyone will do the job. What happen thereafter worse or better ?? Did this approach effectively address the problem?. Also how come a few infiltration wells of this size (See the image below) could take more than a week of torrential rains covering such a large areas of Metropolitan Jakarta which might also get added by flash flooding from other regions.

He is advocating an idea that closely resembles the concept of Infiltration wells in the Middle East, which effectively manage water in arid regions with scarce rainfall. Probably because he was following the advise from his scientists who are spending more time in middle east politics, preaching rather than expand their knowledge in science. It does not need a genius to realise that Infiltration wells in arid areas, desserts areas will work well to harvest and absorb the excess water from the rain. But Jakarta especially during monsoon and its torrential rains is not a dessert. While it is expected to absorb the excess water it turns to become a very large public swimming pools.

Anies and his fervent supporters, particularly the more extreme ones who consider religion is above the constitution, seem to favour adopting ideas from the Middle East without adequately considering the distinct ethnics, beliefs, cultures, environmental differences between the two regions.