Anyone here know anything about insulation?

Ruserious

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Ive been trying to find insulation for my house. Its ideally both for noise and to make the ac's a bit more efficient but im really struggling; partly because i know very little about it but also because its hard to find knowledgeable contractors in Indonesia. Most ones i have talked to only recommend a thicker foil underneath the roof tiles. I struggle to see how that helps much with either noise or heat.

I was looking for a spray type insulation that could be applied directly above the gypsum platfond ceiling. Above that is unused attic/roof area and it seems pointless to concentrate the insulation at the area under the roof. So does anyone here have any recommendations on what to look for, or even better a contractor?
 

R Cameron

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I've wondered about this also but have yet to purchase anything. I agree that it seems more logical to insulate just above the ceiling/plafon rather than just below the roof/atap (both for maximum effect). Most insulation I have seen for sale at toko bangunan is rolls of foil with bubble or thin foam applied, but a thicker glasswool/rockwool roll out type insulation would seem more effective to me (on top of plafon). I had considered spray on types, but with the way the electrical wires are run in my attic space I would not want to cover them with spray.

If you're looking for the Indonesian word used, it's typically "peredam panas", try that with a google search or talking to local tukang.

https://soundproof.simdif.com/
http://rockwooljakarta.com/rockwool/
https://cahayaasajaya.wordpress.com/2016/03/02/jual-glasswool-peredam-panas-merk-terbaik-harga-murah/
https://www.rumahmaterial.com/2018/01/spray-polyurethane-foam.html
 

Bad_azz

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Hubby just making a music studio in our upstairs room that does get very hot during the day, he has just batonned out the walls & filled with fibre glass or rock wool or glaswall or whatever you want to call it- vile stuff, cover up well if using it & wear a mask & goggles.
Then he has put a layer of gypsum/ plasterboard over it.
I can safely say he has not enjoyed that project & still has the ceiling to do.
 

dafluff

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Insulating right above the plafond may be counterproductive, as it traps the heat in as it rises. Now if your main concern is sound, then sure.

As for cooling, think of an air conditioner "pouring" cold air into the room. As it "sinks" to the bottom of the room, the cold air mostly escapes from the bottom of doors and unsealed windows. I would investigate simple insulation (like door brush strips) for those. Most are do it yourself, using simple adhesive strips. As a bonus, it keeps out kecoak and cicaks. For a bigger budget, I would consider double windows. These will definitely also help with the sound.
 

El_Goretto

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The bubble wrap kind of material sandwiched between aluminium foil is actually pretty good and made to be used under the roof tiles. The problem is that most contractors install it wrong.

It's supposed to sag between the battens for maximum efficiency.

There are three types of heat that affect a building - radiation, convection, and conduction, with radiation being the most dominant form of heat loss or gain in summer or winter, occurring across wall cavities, roof spaces, and through floors.

Kingspan AIR-CELL's highly reflective foil first reflects up to 97% of radiant heat away from its surface. The small amount of heat absorbed is then further reduced by the conductional resistance of the polymer air cell structure, keeping you cool in summer and warm in winter.
Source: https://www.kingspan.com/au/en-au/products-brands/insulation/reflective-flexible-insulation/air-cell-range

I'd recommend calling Kingspan in Australia and ask for their current distributor. They used to work with PT Solartek in South Jakarta but it's unclear whether that company still exists. I'm sure they might be able to help you.

It's also possible to combine several types of insulation at once: some in the ceiling and some under the roof.

The problem with wool types of insulation is that you may get rodents and other animals nesting in it. Also a mess if you ever have a leak as it will act like a sponge.

You should also make sure there is some ventilation in your attic space.

About sound insulation, Kingspan used to have a product called acoustibreak which was to be installed under the roof to provide both thermal insulation as well as sound dempening but it looks discontinued. Maybe you should ask if there is any stock of this left in Indonesia (long shot).

Btw, if you go down the route of bubble wrap and foil type of insulation, be careful of what you buy. Some of it are cheap imitations from China that do not have fire retardants like the one produced in Australia.
 
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R Cameron

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Insulating right above the plafond may be counterproductive, as it traps the heat in as it rises. Now if your main concern is sound, then sure.

As for cooling, think of an air conditioner "pouring" cold air into the room.
That's an interesting theory, and I don't pretend to be an expert, but if the attic space is 60c and the AC is set to 24c, I think the intense heat from above would be heating the thin plafond which then adds heat to the room. One distinction from your "pouring" analogy is that the AC doesn't get cold air from somewhere else, it takes hot air from near the top of the room, chills it, and blows it back out into the room. Yes, the hot air will rise and cool air fall (in a still room), but a hot plafond will make for hotter air up high, which takes more energy from the AC to cool.

That's just focusing on the ceiling/roof though, I agree entirely about door gaps being a (the most?) common culprit of inefficiency, and thin windows as well. Door strips should definitely be done first.
 

R Cameron

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The problem with wool types of insulation is that you may get rodents and other animals nesting in it. Also a mess if you ever have a leak as it will act like a sponge.
Yikes! I think you may have just changed my mind, I can picture both of those things happening quite easily!
 

Bad_azz

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I would be concerned about the condensation produced if using "bubblewrap' type stuff. I'd deffo want something breathable considering the wet & humid climate we have here.
 

El_Goretto

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I would be concerned about the condensation produced if using "bubblewrap' type stuff. I'd deffo want something breathable considering the wet & humid climate we have here.
When used under the roof, it doesn't create more condensation that regular aluminium foil. And with proper attic ventilation that should not be a problem. But the air bubbles do act as an extra barrier from heat.

That said, if a breathable membrane is required, the sponge like product sandwiched between perforated aluminium foil will work.

Those Aircell products are meant to be used in different parts of Australia including Northern Territories and Queensland which have similar weather conditions than here.
 

Ruserious

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You guys are right with the wool type of insulation. I can just imagine a large sponge full of water right above my head waiting to crash through the ceiling.

I did find a lot of interesting tips on a bali website (https://www.mrfixitbali.com/building-design/building-insulation-250.html) but i don't think ive found the answer for me yet.
I have aluminium foil below the roof.....funny i always thought that was a leak protection due to poorly installed roofs here. Ive done almost everything i can with the windows, doors etc. I can tell the noise at least is coming from above though. Not sure on where the heat comes in. I might look into insulated ceiling tiles for select rooms as that seems like something that cant be messed up too badly during installation.
 

dafluff

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You guys are right with the wool type of insulation. I can just imagine a large sponge full of water right above my head waiting to crash through the ceiling.

I did find a lot of interesting tips on a bali website (https://www.mrfixitbali.com/building-design/building-insulation-250.html) but i don't think ive found the answer for me yet.
I have aluminium foil below the roof.....funny i always thought that was a leak protection due to poorly installed roofs here. Ive done almost everything i can with the windows, doors etc. I can tell the noise at least is coming from above though. Not sure on where the heat comes in. I might look into insulated ceiling tiles for select rooms as that seems like something that cant be messed up too badly during installation.
I've used Mr Fixit before, and one of my go to tukangs is a former Mr Fixit guy. They definitely know what they're doing (compared to the local competition). They're not cheap tho, but you get what you pay for...
 

Ruserious

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e used Mr Fixit before, and one of my go to tukangs is a former Mr Fixit guy. They definitely know what they're doing (compared to the local competition). They're not cheap tho, but you get what you pay for..
Yes i wish there was a service like this in Jakarta. I find i normally end up paying higher rates as having to get it redone anyway
 

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