America on Fire

I think it's bad idea to mix BLM and LGBTQ rights into one, imagine you joined the BLM march, does it mean you also support LGBTQ? No kid should be brought into a LGBTQ rally, obscenity is everywhere.


Oh no. No, no, no. This movement requires a perfect adherence to select causes. One of those causes is gay rights, and most specifically trans rights.

The left loves to eat itself. People who would otherwise be considered allies are roundly castigated for veering off from territory the true believers consider sacrosanct. Take J.K. Rowling for instance. She's had the moral fortitude to speak her mind on the issue of gender identity. She's also suffering from widespread condemnation for doing so. They refer to her derisively as a TERF. That's "Trans Exclusionary Radical Feminist" for those who don't know.

A diversity of opinion is not illiberalism's strong point.
 
Just a quick note,
I think this is overstated a little bit. The USA is 73% "white". Even most of "people of colour" are Latin non-white Americans, effectively similar "Christian-Catholic" culture, descendants of Portuguese and Spanish conquistadores(another oppressors-irony). California was Mexican until taken by war from these descendants of the Spanish colonialists.

Number of WASPs went down, but the US is white almost as it was. 2017 had 73% whites comparing to 2010 when it was 72%. In 2014 almost 76% of newborn kids were by white mothers.

The black population is steady on 13%, or slightly above 14% when self-identifying mixed kids are included.

"White alone, not Hispanic or Latino, percent.... 60.4%"


Hispanics largely do not consider themselves white.

Of that 60.4%, many if not most are older. The present of the United States is rapidly, very rapidly, becoming not white.
 
That isn't uniquely a feature of whiteness exclusively, though white people by and large are beneficiaries. What is different about white people, or at least the nation-states founded by our forebears, is that there is a vision for someone who is non-white to become a citizen, to become a countryman.

You could become German. You could become French. You could become British. You have become American.

It is highly unlikely I could become an Indonesian if I weren't married to WNI. It's even more unlikely I could become Japanese or South Korean, or Chinese.

White people are chided for resistance to immigration when we're largely the only people who advocate for it. I don't blame developed economies, save Singapore, in Asia that are reluctant to share in the wealth of diversity. It's a pain, it's a real burden to shoulder that ever growing lack of cohesion. They can easily point to the crises facing the United States, Canada, EU, and Australia as all the more reason to be cautious of calls to diversify their populace.

MAGA is indeed as you say it is. Its adherents seek a return to whiteness as the default identity of the United States. What is to be its successor identity? With the rise of apparent monocultures outside of white-majority nations, how will we differentiate ourselves?

Sure, USA and Western Europe tend to have a more progressive stance on immigration, but it is heavily challenged today, and you can forget Eastern Europe.

Indonesia was not free until 75 years ago, there are still Indonesians alive today who experienced life as a Dutch subject, including my dad. The experience of being occupied by a foreign power is still too recent for people to accept a progressive attitude toward immigration. You really can’t discuss this fully without considering the legacy of western colonialism and imperialism.

In the case of America, the entire population except the natives are immigrants or their descendants. A German has a stronger case to resist immigration because his ancestors have lived there since prehistoric times, but an American really has no moral ground to oppose immigration in principle. The only limitation is practicality.

Speaking of cohesion, immigrants from France, Spain, Germany, Ireland, and Italy come with their own language and culture that don’t exactly match WASP tradition. Somehow these folks meld together into the modern concept of ‘white’ in USA. It’s a little rich to then claim that this mongrel culture needs to be protected from dilution.

The question about “who is an American” is a complicated one when you look from the inside, but somehow easier for an outsider to answer. Ask the Brits, French, Australians, and Indonesians here about what makes one an American, and you’ll find better answers than simply ‘whiteness’.

As somebody who is both an outsider and an insider, I have a certain perspective on the subject.

One of the definitive traits of an American is his/her belief that anybody can become an American. Not just a “citizen of the United States of America”, but an actual American. Being anti immigrant is so socially unacceptable that Americans (except for straight KKK members) who harbor the sentiment always soften it up by saying they’re only against illegal immigration. Then they elect politicians who promise or imply limited immigration.

An American has a distinctive and unique concept about the importance of certain freedoms, but in combination with a strong desire for law and order.

There are many other things to mention, but what I’m trying to say is that being an American is so much more than being white.

Here’s a tangentially related video from Trevor Noah. Please don’t take this as a dig to the French, it’s just comedy.
 
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"White alone, not Hispanic or Latino, percent.... 60.4%"


Hispanics largely do not consider themselves white.

Of that 60.4%, many if not most are older. The present of the United States is rapidly, very rapidly, becoming not white.
Same source:
"White alone, percent.... 76.5%"

The name itself-Hispanic (Spaniard) is self-explanatory. If you see Ted Cruz, Rubio, AOC (Cortez-same surname as Hernan Cortez-conquistador), they look quite south European(Portuguese/Spanish/Greek/Italian complexity).
 
Black Lives Matter is not about elevating blacks. It's about being treated and respected as others. They don't want separatism, they want inclusion. BLM is not only about blacks. It is about ending the discrimination against all minorities. As it should be.
 
Oh no. No, no, no. This movement requires a perfect adherence to select causes. One of those causes is gay rights, and most specifically trans rights.

The left loves to eat itself. People who would otherwise be considered allies are roundly castigated for veering off from territory the true believers consider sacrosanct. Take J.K. Rowling for instance. She's had the moral fortitude to speak her mind on the issue of gender identity. She's also suffering from widespread condemnation for doing so. They refer to her derisively as a TERF. That's "Trans Exclusionary Radical Feminist" for those who don't know.

A diversity of opinion is not illiberalism's strong point.

You are having a go at BLM movement because some of supporters called out Rowling's anti trans comments? Have you read recently that Trans activist stood up for her when the Sun tabloid published a story of her ex with the headline: I slapped JK and I am not sorry.
 
Indonesia was not free until 75 years ago, there are still Indonesians alive today who experienced life as a Dutch subject, including my dad. The experience of being occupied by a foreign power is still too recent for people to accept a progressive attitude toward immigration. You really can’t discuss this fully without considering the legacy of western colonialism and imperialism

As much as I can understand the anti colonial sentiment, it's still not a good excuse to not accept progressive attitudes. A friend of mine researched about migrants and refugees who are stuck Indonesia after their failed journey to Australia. The Indonesians attitude towards these migrants, who share the same religion with the majority, can't be said sympathetic. It's ironic that many Muslims protest against violence in Palestine and called for Muslim solidarity around the world but ignore those fellow Muslim refugees in their own yard.

There should be a new approach of rewriting the narrative of Indonesian nationalism/identity.
 
As much as I can understand the anti colonial sentiment, it's still not a good excuse to not accept progressive attitudes. A friend of mine researched about migrants and refugees who are stuck Indonesia after their failed journey to Australia. The Indonesians attitude towards these migrants, who share the same religion with the majority, can't be said sympathetic. It's ironic that many Muslims protest against violence in Palestine and called for Muslim solidarity around the world but ignore those fellow Muslim refugees in their own yard.

There should be a new approach of rewriting the narrative of Indonesian nationalism/identity.
I prefer humane and sensible immigration policies everywhere, for people of all religion. Since Indonesia is still a developing country, I don’t have high expectations for her. Having said that, Indonesia’s actual written law on immigration is surprisingly not that much more restrictive than its U.S. counterpart, although the bureaucracy is likely worse. On paper getting a KITAP is not significantly harder than getting a green card.

Indonesia has issues with its treatment of refugees. It hasn’t always been this terrible when Pulau Galang was still reserved to house “boat people”, in coordination with UNHCR. This was all despite Indonesia not being a signatory to the 1951 convention nor the 1967 protocol on refugees. Unfortunately the facility was closed in 1996. Today there’s a haphazard response toward the new wave of refugees to Australia and other developed countries.
 
I prefer humane and sensible immigration policies everywhere, for people of all religion. Since Indonesia is still a developing country, I don’t have high expectations for her. Having said that, Indonesia’s actual written law on immigration is surprisingly not that much more restrictive than its U.S. counterpart, although the bureaucracy is likely worse. On paper getting a KITAP is not significantly harder than getting a green card.

Indonesia has issues with its treatment of refugees. It hasn’t always been this terrible when Pulau Galang was still reserved to house “boat people”, in coordination with UNHCR. This was all despite Indonesia not being a signatory to the 1951 convention nor the 1967 protocol on refugees. Unfortunately the facility was closed in 1996. Today there’s a haphazard response toward the new wave of refugees to Australia and other developed countries.

Actually Indonesian Immigration Law is far more restrictive than the US, despite mimicking it (invest in a PMA company and you will get residency and a theoretical path to citizenship, marry and you get residency and path to citizenship). Having an investor KITAP does not guarantee citizenship while having investor Green Card (almost) guarantees US citizenship.

Indonesian law does not recognize double citizenships, meaning that you and your complete assets are in reach of the Indonesian Government and the Indonesian legal system, and citizenships are granted directly by the President, with a high refusal rate (number of granted citizenships per year are counted in dozens, and investor KITAP does not guarantee a citizenship approval). Exceptions are cases of granting citizenship trough the spouse rote, granted by the Minister of Law.

Indonesia simply does not want many resident foreigners in their country, same as China, Japan, Thailand (getting stricter recently).
 
Stanford University is actually a Himmler School.

Leland Stanford: “.....I prefer the white man to the negro as an inhabitant to our country. I believe its greatest good has been derived by having all of the country settled by free white men.”
 
The founder of Yale was another slave trader.
Graduates should renounce their degrees voluntarily at least.


 
Race is a funny thing. Both of my kids look pretty white. My oldest is a mix of European/UK, native American and African. My youngest is the same European/UK, Indonesian with medium mix of Filipina and a pinch of south Asian.

I‘ve watched people’s mouth drop open when my oldest speaks perfect Spanish, or my youngest converses in Bahasa Indonesia.

There are many blended families in the US. Some people aren’t comfortable listing all the ethnicities for the census, or other studies.

Lots of people aren’t even aware of all the ancestors they have. Out of wedlock births, interracial unions, and similar were treated very differently in the US 60-100 years ago.

In Indonesia, even now (as far as I know), a child born out of wedlock only has the mothers name on the birth certificate.
 
Race is a funny thing. Both of my kids look pretty white. My oldest is a mix of European/UK, native American and African. My youngest is the same European/UK, Indonesian with medium mix of Filipina and a pinch of south Asian.

I‘ve watched people’s mouth drop open when my oldest speaks perfect Spanish, or my youngest converses in Bahasa Indonesia.

There are many blended families in the US. Some people aren’t comfortable listing all the ethnicities for the census, or other studies.

Lots of people aren’t even aware of all the ancestors they have. Out of wedlock births, interracial unions, and similar were treated very differently in the US 60-100 years ago.

In Indonesia, even now (as far as I know), a child born out of wedlock only has the mothers name on the birth certificate.

My great grandmother was an inveterate racist. As a child, she would tell me how mixed race children were the most beautiful children. However, I was also instructed that I could never marry outside my race and sire such children because I am white and doing so would some day eliminate the white race.

If she could see me now.

As a foot note, I learned later in life that her father had an affair with a North African woman back in France and that it had deeply affected my great grandmother as a child. When I got the results of my DNA tests a few years back, another twist in the story emerged. It turns out we also had a direct connection to North Africa. I share the strongest genetic affinities with Egyptian Arabs, Ashkenazi Jews, and Macedonians/Bulgarians.
 
Speaking also candidly on race in the United States, the other side of the family has a good bit more experience with racial stratification. I'd previously mentioned two free women of color as ancestors and the likelihood of enslaved persons further down the line. Another set of relatives took a different, but common, approach in the United States.

They tried to do anything they could to mask the fact that they had African ancestors. I have ancestors and relatives who are Lumbee people. The Lumbee are a state recognized American Indian tribe in North Carolina. They are not federally recognized. There are major questions as to the validity of their claim of having American Indian blood quantum, and recent genetic testing seems to confirm this: they're of mixed European and African ancestry.

This story has played out in a number of places in the United States. In the same region, there are people who call themselves "melungeons." They claim that their darker skin is a byproduct of Portuguese ancestry. They're very convinced of this. Recent genetic testing has confirmed their recent African origins, too.

Because of the racial stratification of the United States, people developed alternative ethnic identities to protect themselves. If people in the United states are still reluctant to list or explore their ancestry, it comes from this history.
 
Fight in the USA against racism is going in the right direction finally (sarcasm):


 
Fight in the USA against racism is going in the right direction finally (sarcasm):


Who?
 
It has become common to get posts complaining about 'political correctness" as in this item from Balipod.
"....everyday common things we used to say but now you be stoned to death if you were to say them but the strange thing is the older folks even the ones they were talking about used to say the same things, a few examples that come to mind are from popular tv series as ****** mentioned one The Black & White Minstrel Show, and a few others like Till Death Us Do Part with Alf Garnet or Rigsby with his coloured lodger who even used the term to describe himself this I mean back in the days when you could speak without the PC Stormtroopers sitting waiting, and other things that were normal ways to describe things such as nipping down to the Pakis for a packet fags or we will get a Chinky tonight instead of cooking etc (in fact the last time I was home for a holiday and went to my local regular Chinese the owner said he getting a lot of bad complaints about the food at that new chinky just opened along the rd. ) for the love of god even these people say that about each other or at least in the UK they do without batting an eyelid but the PC Stormtroopers think that is totally unacceptable, this is what I mean examples of PC gone mad. "

I responded with this and it seems relative to the discussion in this Forum thread.

"While I understand the dismay at not being able to say "Chink... Nigger... Abbo ... " and using similar terms while pining for the good old days when the Black and White Minstrel show was top entertainment, I am sorry to report that the world is ever changing. There was a time pre-war when Adolf Hitler was seen as jolly good chap. There is even a photograph of her Majesty as a child giving a Nazi salute. Ironic to use the term "storm troopers" when referring to people objecting to the above terms and behaviour, once acceptable but now regarded as inappropriate.

It is not surprising that minority groups used to use these derogatory terms themselves as this was a survival mechanism. In the American south any "black American who didn't play the game of being the dumb "nigger" might find himself swinging from a tree. "Strange Fruit" as that bitter song describes. The "Chink" was likely to get a fistful of fives if he tried to be a smart arse. I have documented the story of a former Australian immigration officer who explained that in the good old days (1950s) as "Chink " seamen came down the ramp off a ship they would be made to drop their dacks and bend over to see that they were not hiding watches or other contraband in their anuses. After the check, the dacks pulled up, the immigration officer would give them each a little kick in the bum and send them on their way. No malice.... just friendly.

I doubt that an Immigration officer would last long if they were using that modus operandi today.

Sorry to repeat gentlemen, times have changed so go on using terms like "Nigger... Abbo... Chink" and throw in the odd Nazi salute if that is your bent but don't be surprised if it gets an unhappy response. Perhaps even get clobbered by some member of a minority group no longer prepared to accept well meant even affectionate, derogatory remarks.

Most of us manage to move with the times but by all means stay living in the past and the good old days. "
 
Not sure if this is the right thread for this, but OMG this is hilarious. I especially like the muzzle and trigger discipline displayed here.

 
A big house, big guns, presumably having lots of money and living in a state of fear. Glad they're not my neighbours.
 

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